ICYMI: Blumenthal Discusses Kids Online Safety with Forbes

[WASHINGTON, D.C.] – In case you missed it, U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), along with U.S. Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN), was interviewed by Forbes breaking news reporter Brittany Lewis about the Kids Online Safety Act. Blumenthal and Blackburn first introduced the comprehensive bipartisan legislation in February 2022 following reporting and a series of five subcommittee hearings with social media companies and advocates on Big Tech’s repeated failures to protect young people from serious dangers on their platforms.

Asked about the specifics of the legislation, Blumenthal said: “[O]ne aspect of it, for example, the disconnect, the black box algorithms that drive this toxic content about eating disorders, bullying, even suicide toward children. Second, more transparency, so that the algorithms are better known and so that action can be taken to moderate their effects. And…a duty of care so that there’s some accountability when the social media companies know about the effects of their content, continue to repetitively drive it at kids so that it’s almost addictive to them, and they can be held responsible by parents and others.”

Responding to a question about why the legislation means so much, Blumenthal stated: “[S]ocial media has betrayed our trust and they have a duty of care that would be imposed through this legislation. To do the right thing, no longer trusting them. By saying to them, you have to do better or you will be held responsible. And those dark rabbit holes are very, very dangerous for kids. And increasingly what we’re finding is the children themselves are aware of it. They know they want better protection, take back control over their lives.”

Asked about concerns about the legislation raised by human rights and LGBTQ organizations, Blumenthal responded: “We have reached out to the ACLU, to those organizations that joined in that letter and we’ve modified the legislation. We’ve done some changes that I think accommodate many of their concerns.”

The video of the full Forbes interview can be found here and the full transcript is copied below. More information on the Kids Online Safety Act can be found here. The updated December 2022 legislative text, which reflects collaboration and feedback from stakeholders, can be found here.

Brittany Lewis, Forbes: Hi everybody, I'm Brittany Lewis a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me now are Senators Marsha Blackburn and Richard Blumenthal. Senators, thank you so much for coming on. You both introduced the Kids Online Safety Act, so before we break down the legislation, Senator Blackburn during a recent hearing, you said that both you and Senator Blumenthal have been working on this for the past three years. Can you describe the journey of the legislation, and the catalyst for the two of you teaming up?

U.S. Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN): Yes indeed. In 2019, at the Senate Judiciary Committee, we started a task force on technology, and as we worked on that and met with different providers we started to segment what was wrong with the virtual space. One of the things that came forward is a lack of privacy, a lack of data security, and then also, the harms that are coming to children and young users online. And then as Senator Blumenthal took the chairmanship at Consumer Protection and Data Security at the Commerce Committee, we started drilling down on what was happening with children, and in that we did a series of five hearings with social media platforms looking at what children are exposed to, delving into how they access this information, and realizing that there was no duty of care, responsibility, or accountability from these social media platforms to these younger users and their parents.

Lewis: So, Senator Blumenthal, you’re sitting through these hearings you’re hearing the harm that social media has on young children and now you come up with a solution, which is the Kids Online Safety Act, so can you break it down give us the specifics of the legislation?

U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-CT): Absolutely, and I’m really proud of the fact that this measure was the result of bipartisan work together, very sincerely. Senator Blackburn has been a tremendous partner and her team have been excellent working with mine on the basic protections for children, to give them back control over their lives and give parents tools so they can protect their children. That’s one aspect of it, for example, the disconnect, the black box algorithms that drive this toxic content about eating disorders, bullying, even suicide toward children. Second, more transparency, so that the algorithms are better known and so that action can be taken to moderate their effects. And as Senator Blackburn said so well, a duty of care so that there’s some accountability when the social media companies know about the effects of their content, continue to repetitively drive it at kids so that it’s almost addictive to them, and they can be held responsible by parents and others. You know, I would say the most powerful impacts have been the testimony from parents who’ve lost children, literally lost children, because of these black box algorithms, and of course Francis Haugen, the whistleblower from Facebook, who described how Facebook knew about the consequences of its social media and did nothing about it, in fact the clicks, the eyeballs, the repetition all mean more advertising more money and it put profit over those children.

Lewis: I want to talk specifically about how this legislation would be holding social media accountable. In the legislation, it says that there would be independent audits that the platforms would be going through. So, Senator Blackburn who would be overseeing these independent audits?

Blackburn: There are organizations that can do these into dependent audits. The thing that is so important about this is, what we have learned, and Senator Blumenthal just mentioned this: the social media platforms have known that there was harm that was happening. They have done surveys, they have done research but what they’ve chosen to do is to hold that information to themselves and not share it with parents, and pediatricians, and child psychologists. What we are saying is, there needs to be a third party that is going to be looking at this and saying “Here is what is happening.” Now, you do have a certain psychiatric groups, pediatric groups that have started to do research. You do have mental health researchers that are looking at that. Even the CDC hasn’t done a report about what is happening specifically to teens, and specifically to young women, and how this is adversely impacting them. So this is why we believe that these platforms have a responsibility to be held accountable to have a standard for what they are allowing to go up on their pages and what they're allowing children to see.

Lewis: Obviously social media platforms are the most important part here of holding them accountable but parents do come into play too. So Senator Blumenthal, you mentioned that you would be giving parents tools. What specifically does that look like?

Blumenthal: It looks like, for example, disconnecting the algorithms so that kids are not bound by what the choices are that the social media companies make. In other words, those choices that make more money for them, but not better lifestyles or quality of life for the children. And what it looks like also is that parents have to exercise more responsibility and Senator Blackburn, as a parent and a grandmother, I’m not a grandfather, but I am a parent of four. We really, I think, were very much affected by what's happening in our own worlds as well as what we're hearing from constituents, from family members. The pervasive impact of social media really demands more responsibility from parents as well as from the social media companies. So we’re not saying that parents have no role here, but let's be real, parents often need the help of tools, guard rails, safeguards which they lack right now. We can’t all be social media experts or technologists in a way that normal people have to be if they’re going to be solely responsible. We need the help of the companies themselves to give choices and tools and safeguards to those parents that want to exercise them.

Blackburn: Yeah I think it’s important to note, and I had a mom sum it up for me really well, she said that, she had just assumed, that when there were guidance, provisions that were in place that said suitable for children 13 and over or children 16 and over, it would be like games that you’re buying or virtual games that kids are playing or movies that kids are seeing. But what she realized during the pandemic was that there was not any type of adjustments that were made on the social media platforms and she said, Marcia, you know I used to think that when I had my kids home at night and the doors were locked and we were all in everybody was safe. And during the pandemic she realized the enemy was inside the house and it was on that device, it was on that computer screen. And it was, whether it was the bullying and the constant feeding of videos on eating disorders, or depression, comparisons or things of that nature that it was too much for a young child to handle. And because of that, there needs to be a more explicit approach by the social media companies and there needs to be more guidance to parents as to what kids are confronting. We even at one of our hearings on Instagram, the Instagram CEO had applauded a girl who was eight that had an Instagram page and children that are eight years old are not supposed to be on Instagram.

Lewis: Sure. And to that point I mean it wasn’t until college when social media really got big so this is a semi-new problem and it’s interesting on how to navigate this. And Senator Blackburn, I really want to turn to you when you were discussing this during a hearing last month. It seemed like you got a little choked up when talking about social media companies profiting while you described kids are paying the ultimate price here. Can you talk about why this legislation specifically means so much to you?

Blackburn: When you look at what is happening to these children and the parents that we have met with, and the stories that they tell us. Whether it is a child that has been bullied and ended up taking their life or a child who learned how to commit self-harm because it was taught on YouTube. Children that cut themselves, children that end up making those cuts deeper, children that end up trying to take their lives. Children that do TikTok challenges and then the challenge goes wrong and they lose their life. And they are doing this, they’re getting into these platforms, their parents are unaware, and there is not a guidance, there’s not that firewall there’s not that guidance and when you think about these kids that are 10, 11, 12, 13 years old and it is one of the reasons so many people say why don’t we have age limits on this. And why is it that these social media platforms use these algorithms, use artificial intelligence, continue to feed these kids information that sends them further down the rabbit hole if you will. And when you can go on YouTube and find something that is music to commit suicide by, or how to commit suicide, or how to uh how to lose weight and it drives you into eating disorders. These are things that are inappropriate. You wouldn’t allow it in the physical space and it ought not to be allowed in the virtual space. And that is the reason that the Kids Online Safety Act is so important so that we begin to put those guard rails in place that will protect children.

Blumenthal: I think that’s really well said. You know, Senator Blackburn earlier mentioned social media wanting trust. Well, for a very long time they said trust us, trust us. Well social media has betrayed that trust. Parents know it and, unfortunately, a lot of parents know it because they've lost children or their children have suffered from eating disorders and bullying. And that point about bullying following kids home. It used to be, you know, when I was growing up that bullying occurred on the play yard. But kids could go home and get relief. Now the bullying follows them literally to the time they go to bed through social media and through the internet relationships that they may have. Well social media has betrayed our trust and they have a duty of care that would be imposed through this legislation. To do the right thing, no longer trusting them. By saying to them, you have to do better or you will be held responsible. And those dark rabbit holes are very, very dangerous for kids. And increasingly what we’re finding is the children themselves are aware of it. They know they want better protection, take back control over their lives.

Lewis: I hear how passionate the both of you are about this, but the bill did not make it into the fiscal year 2023 funding plan. But do you think it has a better chance of passing this Congress?

Blumenthal: Great question, and the answer is emphatically yes, it has a much better chance because we’re beginning with a bill at the very beginning of this Congress. And at the very beginning of this session. You know we had those five hearings in the subcommittee on consumer protection that Senator Blackburn mentioned, that took time to do. And then we had to write the bill, and then we had to get consensus for it. And we did it all. We’ve had a unanimous vote from the Commerce Committee, both sides of the aisle. And by the way at that hearing, if you closed your eyes and you heard the questions and the statements of outrage, you couldn’t tell whether it was a Democrat or Republican. We have built a solid foundation for this bill and we’re beginning this session with a running start rather than beginning from, kind of, starting off the blocks. And I think we have a really good chance.

Blackburn: Well and we have our colleagues who are now saying I can’t believe this bill did not get passed and signed by the President. And that’s a really good thing, that people now they’ve heard so much about the Kids Online Safety Act, or KOSA, as it is called. They’ve heard it from their physician’s office, the pediatrician’s office, they have heard it from the school and from the principal and different parent groups, moms groups. And they’re beginning to say ‘I can’t believe Congress didn’t pass this.’ So, that’s a good sign for us and we’re looking forward to having this go through the Senate and the House with every single individual voting for it.

Lewis: Something that’s really not lost on me is that we have a Democrat and a Republican sitting together talking about this, agreeing on this in a highly partisan time. Senator Blumenthal, you said, one of the first things that came out of your mouth in this interview was that you really appreciated the bipartisan nature of this act. And Senator Blackburn, you seem to concur. Aside from this legislation, I have a question for the both of you. Are there any other policy areas that you can see yourself working on across the aisle?

Blumenthal: Yes there are.

Blackburn: We actually got a couple of other pieces of legislation and, let’s see… the online app market act, online privacy and then we did the baseball bill. So yeah, you know, we’re working on things that are good for consumers, good for the American people.

Blumenthal: And by the way this is the way Congress should be and the way it used to be. And I’m really just delighted and inspired in a way that we’re able to work together in this way because it, frankly, it restores my hope. I just ran for reelection and won with the hope that Congress would be doing exactly this kind of thing. And the fact that we have developed these pieces of legislation that have bipartisan support, I think it’s really encouraging.

Lewis: It’s really refreshing to see for sure, and this highly partisan time it really says something that you're getting such an overwhelmingly positive response to the legislation. But, I did see a letter that only, or over 90 human rights organizations and LGBTQ groups including the ACLU and GLAAD signed a letter of opposition to the legislation at the end of 2022 that said in part the following, “While KOSA aims of preventing harassment, exploitation and mental health trauma for minors are laudable, the legislation is unfortunately likely to have damaging unintended consequences for young people.” I pose the question to you both: what is your response?

Blumenthal: Let me just say, I greatly respect the views that have been expressed by some organizations like the ACLU, an organization that does great work. And their objections to any sort of potential constraints on speech. Well, that’s the point of view I respect as well, but there is a balance that has to be struck. And sometimes it involves some modifications on speech. No right is absolute. We have reached out to the ACLU, to those organizations that joined in that letter and we’ve modified the legislation. We’ve done some changes that I think accommodate many of their concerns. At the end of the day, and I think Senator Blackburn has been a great partner and supporter in this effort, because we’ve held together our bipartisan coalition, there has to be some compromise. We know that legislation is never going to accomplish everything that we want, everything they want. But I think it makes a tremendous advance in keeping kids safer. That’s why it’s called the Kids Online Safety Act. And I’m really hopeful that we have met some of the criticisms and objections. We’ve made changes and I’m hoping that our coalition will be very, very broad.

Lewis: Senators, one final question. Let’s talk hypothetical here. Let’s say the bill is signed into law tomorrow. How quickly could these safeguards be put into effect?

Blumenthal: Right away.

Blackburn: Yeah, once the bill is signed into law it is in effect. So the social media platforms would need to make their adjustments immediately. And I would say as soon as it passes the Senate and the House even before it is signed, they will begin. I think they’re getting the message that Congress is not going to sit still and let them act like it’s the Wild West. Our children are not their products and because of that, some guidelines are going to be put in place, and we expect them to adhere to them.

Lewis: Senators Blackburn and Blumenthal, thank you for joining me.

Blumenthal: Thank you.

Blackburn: Thank you very much.

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